Chris's response.........
Bill, I support your first amendment right to speak out on any issue, to be critical of your local government, and even your fellow citizens and residents. Keep it up and God bless you for using it!
Me personally, I cannot take anymore of your tiring rants, mis-representation of facts, and the demeaning of others to make a point, which to me is illogical.
Your whole argument ignores ones right to own, sale, donate, develop, or do what they want with their property. You do not own the golf course, the city does not own the golf course, residents do not own the golf course. The Ashton's did and they did with it what they wanted to. People like the Ashton's are amazing people. I applaud them, not because they sold the property to the LDS church, but because they wanted to make their community a better place. They saw an opportunity and they took it. God bless them!
When you want to have a serious DISCUSSION I am all in.
BTW, why don't you share your email to this group that you sent to the city attorney requiring that all elected officials and city staff declare their religion? And how if any of them are affiliated with the LDS church should recuse themselves from any LDS decision that comes before them. If you lost it, I have my copy! Thank you for respecting my first amendment right to associate with the religion of my choice.
Oh, where in the constitution, or the law, does it say that I, as an elected official, have to declare my religion and recuse myself? And does your statement just apply to LDS members? What about Catholics, Jews, Non-denominational, Muslims, Baptists, Protestants, Appostalics, Evangelicals, Roman Catholics, .....? Should every candidate for elected office just recuse themselves when their particular religion has a development project come before them? Or just the LDS ones?
My response to Chris's response
Let’s breakdown Chris's comment on one of my blogpost.
Bill, I support your first amendment right to speak out on any issue, to be critical of your local government, and even your fellow citizens and residents. Keep it up and God bless you for using it!
I most certainly am not critical. Remember, local government and those who serve in elected positions work for the people of the city, town or community. Speaking out and pointing out discrepancies in city government should not be attacked or ignored by reviewed carefully by those who work at city hall.
Me personally, I cannot take any more of your tiring rants, mis-representation of facts, and the demeaning of others to make a point, which to me is illogical.
Me personally, I cannot take any more of your tiring rants, mis-representation of facts, and the demeaning of others to make a point, which to me is illogical.
Chris, if you don’t like it, don’t read it. I have not demeaned anyone. I simply pose questions and request answers and speak the truth as I see it. If you want to challenge what I have written, you are free to give a written response to my questions and provide me with the documents I have requested. Simply ignoring my questions leads me to further believe that City Hall is operating in secret and has a hidden agenda. It is critical that City Hall follow the code as it is written and not ignore the sections they don’t want to have to deal with.
Your whole argument ignores ones right to own, sale, donate, develop, or do what they want with their property. You do not own the golf course, the city does not own the golf course, residents do not own the golf course. The Ashton's did and they did with it what they wanted to. People like the Ashton's are amazing people. I applaud them, not because they sold the property to the LDS church, but because they wanted to make their community a better place. They saw an opportunity and they took it. God bless them!
Your whole argument ignores ones right to own, sale, donate, develop, or do what they want with their property. You do not own the golf course, the city does not own the golf course, residents do not own the golf course. The Ashton's did and they did with it what they wanted to. People like the Ashton's are amazing people. I applaud them, not because they sold the property to the LDS church, but because they wanted to make their community a better place. They saw an opportunity and they took it. God bless them!
Sold? Have you seen the real estate purchase and sale agreement? Sold, can you say donated. There was mention that a portion of the property was donated, so what was the portion of the property that was sold, do you know, does the public know, I know I don’t know and would like to. Through my research, The Church may have been looking for a developer in the Thanksgiving Point area to donate property, looks like they found the Ashton’s. Agreed the Ashton’s have been amazing people. They have plenty of property on the other side of the railroad tracks, maybe they could have sold (donated) property where all the other commercial development is taking place. Donate (sell) a driving range on a PGA caliber golf course. I challenged anyone to find me a similar situation where a driving range was converted into two massive office buildings, no one has brought one to my attention. This is not typical and in my opinion and the opinion of countless thousands of others, just flat out wrong. Pose this question to any non LDS golfer who lives outside the State of Utah and they would think this was crazy.
When you want to have a serious DISCUSSION I am all in.
When you want to have a serious DISCUSSION I am all in.
How about answering the questions I have already asked and providing me with the documents I have requested, then let’s have a serious discussion. Answer all my questions and provide me with all the documents. I really don’t want a discussion. I want those at City Hall to obey the rules and regulations just like the rest of us. What gives City Hall the right to choose which codes they want to enforce and which codes they want to ignore, shouldn’t they have to enforce them all!
BTW, why don't you share your email to this group that you sent to the city attorney requiring that all elected officials and city staff declare their religion? And how if any of them are affiliated with the LDS church should recuse themselves from any LDS decision that comes before them. If you lost it, I have my copy! Thank you for respecting my first amendment right to associate with the religion of my choice.
BTW, why don't you share your email to this group that you sent to the city attorney requiring that all elected officials and city staff declare their religion? And how if any of them are affiliated with the LDS church should recuse themselves from any LDS decision that comes before them. If you lost it, I have my copy! Thank you for respecting my first amendment right to associate with the religion of my choice.
Done. I like Paige’s response, she laughs it off and makes a joke of my request. I am a law abiding, tax paying citizen with the right to ask and receive information from City Hall. Working at or for the City of Lehi requires you to not comingle your religious and civic duties and responsibilities. When your personal religious beliefs clouds your ability to be objective in your role in a non-religious entity such as working at for the city, then you may have a conflict of interest and we the public should be aware of that. One of those that signed off on the Family Search subdivision was not at any recorded city meeting to discuss the Family Search plat, yet he signed off on the creation of the plat. When this individual was asked why he signed off on a plat that he never was in any recorded discussions about the plat, one of his responses was that anything The Church does, they do first class. This subdivision was never discussed in an open meeting by the City Council or the Planning Commission which is typical when you create a subdivision. I think there are many who are LDS who are in favor of anything The Church does. Remember, not everyone who lives in Lehi are LDS and you have a responsibility to represent them as well.
Oh, where in the constitution, or the law, does it say that I, as an elected official, have to declare my religion and recuse myself?
Oh, where in the constitution, or the law, does it say that I, as an elected official, have to declare my religion and recuse myself?
Do you have a problem identifying yourself as LDS in an open public forum? Read the ethics section in the handbook I mentioned. It is my opinion that there are many LDS people who have been conditioned to believe anything The Church does is absolutely OK and in fact, The Church conditions its members to believe that any opposition to the teaching of the Church may be wrong. We have a right to know if you are capable of being objective and stand up for the rights of the citizens of Lehi. Your objectivity in your role as a city official is critical and if you are incapable of being objective because of your religious affiliation, then we need to know that. You work for us, not the LDS Church.
And does your statement just apply to LDS members?
In Utah County, city of Lehi, pretty much, not to many other religions other than LDS dominate the landscape. In Lehi, I believe you need to identify your religious beliefs, once again, do you have a problem doing that? I don’t think the Catholics, Jews, Non-denominational, Muslims, Baptists, Protestants etc. as a religion are seeking land donations from wealthy business people who happen to also be LDS to donate property on a golf course to build two massive office buildings.
What about Catholics, Jews, Non-denominational, Muslims, Baptists, Protestants, Apostolic, Evangelicals, Roman Catholics, .....? Should every candidate for elected office just recuse themselves when their particular religion has a development project come before them?
No, I do believe Utah County is unique and has a rather large LDS membership. In Utah County, as it concerns a building project on a golf course, I believe we have the right to know your religious affiliation and whether or not you are capable of being objective. Not all LDS members are capable of being objective and believe anything The Church does is OK by them, we have a right to know if that is how you believe. We also have the right to know if you are going to follow and obey all the city codes or ignore the ones you don’t want to have to deal with. Why don’t we have everyone at city hall read Chapter 28 of the Lehi resort community and sign a sworn statement that everything in the code is being followed exactly as it is written, could you sign that statement. Don’t attack, answer my questions and provide me with the documents I have requested, then we can have a meaningful dialog. Choosing to ignore my questions and requests absolutely means you don’t have the answers and therefore are not in compliance with your own ordinances and codes.
Or just the LDS ones?
No, not just LDS ones. Please read my responses carefully and craft an answer to all my questions and provide me with the documents I have requested.
You will notice I did not attack Chris and I answered his comments and questions, something I hope City Hall and those that work there take a lesson from.
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